Bill Strong

Red Flag Video #13 West Coast Updates and Daytona

238 posts in this topic

4 hours ago, csadn said:

11 & 7, then?

 

Umm, not to be pedantic or anything but those would both be odd numbers.  13&6, 12&7, 9&8, 14&5, all good for big and small capacity.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, espog said:

I think you missed the point of my post. I would much rather have 10 hrs of seat time with some night racing than less than 5 hrs of racing over a given weekend.

There's seems to be an interesting difference in some of the preferences.

 

  • I want to go racing as many weekends as possible, and short races are less costly per event

      VS

  • When I do get to go racing, I want as much seat time as I can possibly get in the weekend.
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, skierman64 said:

 At the first race of 2015 we had a catastrophic failure of the transmission and were saved by our mechanics from home who drove 4.5 hours one way with a new trans and installed it overnight to get us on track on Sunday (hero status for those guys). 

 

That was crazy, mad props to you guys getting back on the track. 

 

If we have a mechanical failure of any kind that cannot be fixed in hot pit, we normally pack up and go home. A few times we have made major repairs between 7 hour races, but not often. 

 

My Dad enjoys working on the cars at home in his garage but, struggling at the track is no fun. My mechanical ability is on the same level as Jeremy Clarkson, so I am useless. 

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Ron_e said:

 

Umm, not to be pedantic or anything but those would both be odd numbers.  13&6, 12&7, 9&8, 14&5, all good for big and small capacity.  

Missed that part -- sorry.

 

Most of those suggestions look like "19 hours racing total"; is that a good amount for people?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, csadn said:

Missed that part -- sorry.

 

Most of those suggestions look like "19 hours racing total"; is that a good amount for people?

 

Yes at a minimum.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, red0 said:

 

That was crazy, mad props to you guys getting back on the track. 

 

If we have a mechanical failure of any kind that cannot be fixed in hot pit, we normally pack up and go home. A few times we have made major repairs between 7 hour races, but not often. 

 

My Dad enjoys working on the cars at home in his garage but, struggling at the track is no fun. My mechanical ability is on the same level as Jeremy Clarkson, so I am useless. 

I can hold a flashlight like nobody's business. ... in the nearly ten years I have been doing this is I have stood beside a Prelude, a Sentra, a Civic, a Galaxy 500, a RX-8, a Celica, an Integra, ........ more hours on my back on the cold wet ground than I ever got in the seat of the 240SX / 5.0, 5.8....

 

Strangely enough. ... one marque isn't included on that list.... ;)

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dogtired said:

I can hold a flashlight like nobody's business. ... in the nearly ten years I have been doing this is I have stood beside a Prelude, a Sentra, a Civic, a Galaxy 500, a RX-8, a Celica, an Integra, ........ more hours on my back on the cold wet ground than I ever got in the seat of the 240SX / 5.0, 5.8....

 

Strangely enough. ... one marque isn't included on that list.... ;)

 

I was laughing with someone about this today. We were comparing an E36 and a Civic. The E36 is a better car in basically every way, but for some reason I'm glad that I have taken the Honda path. 

 

I may may end up being a BMW or Porsche guy, but at least I know the struggle of running a Honda. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, red0 said:

 

 

 

If we have a mechanical failure of any kind that cannot be fixed in hot pit, we normally pack up and go home. A few times we have made major repairs between 7 hour races, but not often. 

 

 

C'mon fellow honda man!....we chucked a rod with just over an hour to go in day 1 of a double 7 at Pacific Raceways in 2015 (35 or so cars that year-not like now)...we were p1 at the time by almost a full lap...got towed in and my co-driver and I went to work pulling the motor immediately (we had no crew this weekend,,,just 2 of us including pit stops)...3.5 hours later the spare was running....we left our lap timer on and our lap time was 3.5 hours when the car was up and running (beer breaks included).

Day 2...with a failing alternator (was on the sparte motor)...we won...(our first win)...with failing electrics, a car that wouldn't rev over 5g for the last half hour, myself forgetting my earbuds so I had no idea where we were positioned and a transponder that died with about 15 minuted to go so we were hand timed....NEVER GIVE UP!!!

7 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, red0 said:

If we have a mechanical failure of any kind that cannot be fixed in hot pit, we normally pack up and go home.

You should pit next to Bob.  Our first 24 (two car team) we lost both engines early and only brought one spare. swapped one with the spare and built another from slavaged pieces from the other two (one lost a rod, the other melted a piston)    Finished with both cars.

 

"We just don't have a big enough team for the long races. "
Team size is critical, used to run with a large team, to very large depending on track and really preferred 24 or more, small team now and shorter races are much easier logistically.

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, curtwill said:

C'mon fellow honda man!....we chucked a rod with just over an hour to go in day 1 of a double 7 at Pacific Raceways in 2015 (35 or so cars that year-not like now)...we were p1 at the time by almost a full lap...got towed in and my co-driver and I went to work pulling the motor immediately (we had no crew this weekend,,,just 2 of us including pit stops)...3.5 hours later the spare was running....we left our lap timer on and our lap time was 3.5 hours when the car was up and running (beer breaks included).

Day 2...with a failing alternator (was on the sparte motor)...we won...(our first win)...with failing electrics, a car that wouldn't rev over 5g for the last half hour, myself forgetting my earbuds so I had no idea where we were positioned and a transponder that died with about 15 minuted to go so we were hand timed....NEVER GIVE UP!!!

 

I might note that I also don't have a spare motor or transmission. We had spares for the D16s but I don't really have any B series stuff. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Ron_e said:

 

Yes at a minimum.

OK, so two upvotes for "19 hours"; anyone else?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, csadn said:

OK, so two upvotes for "19 hours"; anyone else?

 

19 is much better than 7+7.

 

More is better for us.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

On 3/26/2017 at 8:08 AM, Jamie said:

 

Did you contact chump about this issue? It's possible that you cars intial value is too high. Sounds like you might have a car they don't have much data in.

 

Just to give you some insight the swap rules magic number. Basically It targets a power to weight ratio and once you exceed it the points exponentially grow. So in theory this accounts for your 3000lbs car. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. 

 

Now I'm interested in your problem. What's your car and swap? 

 

Also this makes me think. Maybe we should start a subcategory in the forum where people can ask for help getting there cars property declared. Put a link to it next to the rules. Autocross events kind of do this.

 

 

 

Alright here is the story.  Forgive me if I get any of this wrong, or perhaps convey the wrong tone in this post.  I am up late and just back from being called in to help a client work through an after hours technology upgrade that went sideways on them.  It has been a long night.

 

I talked with Mike directly about the swap.  Even under the old rules he said the car would most likely end up in EC despite being within the letter of the rules.

 

The chassis is a 1984 Porsche 928 with an automatic transmission (234 hp stock IIRC) that I ended up with it as a parts car for another 928 project.  One of our group had already purchased a different car for use in Chump, but unfortunately that car had too much rust for us to feel safe bombing around a track in.  We are based in Minnesota, so finding cheap, local beaters that are chump rules friendly but not complete rust buckets in the suspension and sub-frame areas can be a real challenge.  So we did the math and decided to give the 928 a shot.

 

Unfortunately the engine in the 928 would have literally required thousands of dollars in parts and re-conditioning to get it into shape for racing.  The fuel injection computer looked to be toast along with the 30+ year old injectors, fuel system, timing belt and other components.  No problem, let's swap it.

 

The cheapest and easiest swap is an LS based engine.  I am sure you can now see where this is going.  So we did the math on an early 4.8 vortec (255 hp) with plans to keep the stock ECU and everything else, and it looked like we could just squeak the car in for under 500 points if we were willing to live with butchering the hood and using the stock truck intake and front end accessory drive on the engine.  We figured no problem, even if we get a few penalty laps were were good with that.  I know that there is a similarly swapped car running in the citrus series, so figured we should be OK.  Not sure if that car is auto or manual though.  I also know there was another team that was running a 928 with Porsche engine, but that engine lost a main bearing and I think that parked the car.

 

So I emailed Mike and we set up a phone call.  He expressed his strong dislike for anything LS based because of the potential power an LS can make.  He suggested a v6 swap, but unfortunately I do not have the time to engineer a new swap for the car from scratch.  With an LSx swap I can print all the templates for the swap parts I need to fabricate right off the Internet.  It is actually a very simple swap.  We went back and forth a bit, but his disinterest in allowing our car any serious consideration was obvious.  I even offered to dyno the car for him after it was built so he could more accurately assess our performance potential.

 

Over the winter the new calculator came out and our starting chassis may also have jumped up in points from 450 to 500.  With the revised calculator our swap now comes in at somewhere between 750 and 800 points.  And I know there are "legal" cars that would rip our doors off already running in chump.

 

We looked into changing our build specifically for chump.  We even considered finding a different starting platform.  In the end, economics and a lack of safe, local chump friendly platforms pushed the team to begin investigating non-chump alternatives to budget endurance racing.

 

Our team decided to build the car anyway, make the hood close like stock, use an aluminum 5.3 LSx engine I already had laying around (again from another project), and spend our time racing the car where it seems to be more welcome.

 

So that is the whole story.  We may come play at a chump event at some point, but our chumpcar situation has nothing to do with "west coast problems" or other such nonsense.  Our situation comes down to limited time and engineering ability, local chassis and engine availability, and simple economics.  There is no ill will, and only a small bit of frustration.  We own our choices and accept the lumps.

 

What I do not understand is the fear chump leadership seems to have of the small bore LSx engines.  The LS1 is already over 20 years old .. it can go vintage racing in some venues.  The older 4.8 engines are readily available used and very cheap.  Support and parts for LS/Vortec swaps are available almost everywhere.

Edited by erioshi
ECU comments removed - no longer relevant

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now