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DuncanDana

RVA Graphics Eastern Chumpionship

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Why not do a BOP for individual cars like even spec series do. Add some weight or something.

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10 hours ago, miatainium said:

Coming back to this point, who makes those awesome diagrams that show lap-times over drivers and the table that maps out each of the team's FTD vs. finishing position ... it'd be informative to see how the Huggins E30 did across the field.  You know, since we're looking for more reasons to add pages the rulebook ;) 

Here you go.

 

VIR2017Sunday.jpg

10 hours ago, miatainium said:

Coming back to this point, who makes those awesome diagrams that show lap-times over drivers and the table that maps out each of the team's FTD vs. finishing position ... it'd be informative to see how the Huggins E30 did across the field.  You know, since we're looking for more reasons to add pages the rulebook ;) 

Here you go.

 

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44 minutes ago, Wyatt said:

Why not do a BOP for individual cars like even spec series do. Add some weight or something.

We have that.. it's called the VPI table.

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47 minutes ago, Wyatt said:

Why not do a BOP for individual cars like even spec series do. Add some weight or something.

 

I have had to conclude that adding weight to our car actually increases its speed.  I weigh 140 and Fireball weighs 280 or closer to 300 and he usually bests me by about 0.5 seconds.

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6 minutes ago, Huggy said:

Heres the other one.

VIR2017SundayLaptimes.jpg

Fancy charts.  I'd like the excel template ( or Google Doc, etc) if you've got them available for the a over two charts and are willing to share :).  

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25 minutes ago, vtjballeng said:

Fancy charts.  I'd like the excel template ( or Google Doc, etc) if you've got them available for the a over two charts and are willing to share :).  

 

Here you go.  Not really sure this is a "template" - its more just creating the necessary thing for each race.

 

The labels and slope are added in your photo editor of choice.

Charts.xlsx

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10 hours ago, mender said:

Punish the whole swapped contingent for two cars?

Nope, just those who have swapped power to weight ratios that high....

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45 minutes ago, Black Magic said:

Nope, just those who have swapped power to weight ratios that high....

 

9 hours ago, enginerd said:

We have that.. it's called the VPI table.

Yes VPI is directly related to your final Power to weight ratio, it goes something like this:

 

vpi swap_zpsxrdka8mv.jpg

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8 hours ago, Black Magic said:

Nope, just those who have swapped power to weight ratios that high....

A small adjustment in the formula could change my 83 point swap into a 2-300 point swap, punishing my car unduly for what others are doing. Given the steep cliff of the swap formula, that change could be the equivalent of as little as 20 hp, about the same improvement as a 25 point header. Very disproportionate.

 

The better way is to adjust the VPi of the cars in question.

Edited by mender
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Or just lower the weight of the two cars for the formula.  

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4 hours ago, morganf said:

 

Yes VPI is directly related to your final Power to weight ratio, it goes something like this:

 

vpi swap_zpsxrdka8mv.jpg

So that is a chart of "what is my highest swapped PWR given that I want to spend every point I have on the engine"?

kindof a terrible way to spend points... only the village idiot would spend 300 points to gain 0.7 PWR (difference between a 175 pt swap and a 475 pt swap). Adjusting VPI is a BOP tuner not because it will directly change the PWR, the real impact is that losing some points to play with will either add penalty laps or present the team with the challenge of "which go-fast part(s) do I remove", which probably won't affect PWR but will affect performance.

(Also, because of rounding in the online calculator, a 450 pt car can get well below 16 and still be at 500 points. Swap value of 50.499 becomes 50 in the online calc  which still adds to 500)

Edited by enginerd

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On 12/9/2017 at 8:31 AM, morganf said:

 

Yes VPI is directly related to your final Power to weight ratio, it goes something like this:

 

vpi swap_zpsxrdka8mv.jpg

 

What is this saying exactly, is it that for any car for example that has a starting VPI of say 200, that the best that car can attain is a PWR of 11.41 before the slope of amazing power puts you in EC? 

 

Where does this chart come from?

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11 hours ago, ElectricGold said:

 

What is this saying exactly, is it that for any car for example that has a starting VPI of say 200, that the best that car can attain is a PWR of 11.41 before the slope of amazing power puts you in EC? 

 

Where does this chart come from?

Yes maxed out, another way to say it is that a 11.41 PWR swap cost 300pts.

So a 200pt car will be maxed out, a 100pt car at 11.41 will still have 100pts left though.

Chart come from excel and the formula.

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17 minutes ago, morganf said:

Yes maxed out, another way to say it is that a 11.41 PWR swap cost 300pts.

So a 200pt car will be maxed out, a 100pt car at 11.41 will still have 100pts left though.

Chart come from excel and the formula.

Im still confused?  11.41 is written next to 200 pts?

 

 

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On 12/9/2017 at 11:48 AM, mender said:

A small adjustment in the formula could change my 83 point swap into a 2-300 point swap, punishing my car unduly for what others are doing. Given the steep cliff of the swap formula, that change could be the equivalent of as little as 20 hp, about the same improvement as a 25 point header. Very disproportionate.

 

The better way is to adjust the VPi of the cars in question.

 

Which if lap assignments were correct would results in laps you should have the laptime to make up. I know you would then grip about fuel, which you should, because i also believe fuel to weight needs to be roughly equal for all cars. Also "reliability" mods shouldn't be a factor in points, assuming proper effort is done with vpi\mod pricing.

 

My point is much like troys old proposal, the series needs to get over the fear of some cars having penalty laps. Done properly, people will make them up. Arguably pick a power to weight ratio, tire width max and other larger factors in speed for your golden zero point car that don't result in sub 2.20 second laps to be decent at vir full, if you intend on the series being competitive and welcoming to novice drivers. We turn better than spec miata times as a "entry level" race series with 500 point cars!

 

Again the question is, how fast do we want to 500pt bar to be in a weekend series half filled with rookies?

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3 minutes ago, Huggy said:

Im still confused?  11.41 is written next to 200 pts?

 

 

It's the PWR at which a car with that VPi will be maxed (500pts).

 

So, 11.22 consumes 400 points meaning you have to start with a 100 point car to reach the max of 500 points.

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On 12/8/2017 at 3:23 PM, vtjballeng said:

 

@drfrisker was driving and it looks like he got a serious tow from y'all.  Most of our lap times are in the mid-low 2:20s and our next best times were 2:19 and 2:20 I believe.  He slowed because the tires couldn't hold the pace and were getting greasy he says.  He pitted soon after.

Hopefully we'll be able to keep up with y'all with our new setup ;) .

Hats off to you @drfrisker, that was some clean hard racing ... one of the best moments of 2016 for me.  Au contraire, from what we've seen of your new setup, we'll need to keep up with you.

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